Talk:Hibiscus syriacus

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The meaning of mugung (무궁)[edit]

I believe 무궁 means infinite not immortality. Also, even if 무궁's second meaning was immortality, 무궁 is an adjective not a noun, thus the word is in the wrong form. If anyone disagrees, please correct me, but I believe I am correct. Pooh4913 (talk) 00:45, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

How does this behave in the wild?[edit]

This article treats this as an object of gardening, but incompletely:

  1. What about mature height, period of blooming, soil pH, water and sun needs are missing.
  2. What about links to commons?
  3. What about its life in the wild, for which soil, water, and sun are important.
    1. Where is it native?
    2. How does it pollinate?
    3. What larvae does it host?
    4. What insects feed on nectar, foliage?
    5. What classes of fungi live on its roots?

-- This isn't the only article that needs this kind of information. DCDuring (talk) 19:44, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Removal of invasive pestilence[edit]

The article says this plant is "slightly invasive", which is a great understatement. Once established it spreads and is most difficult to control. Many people consider it a pest, and want to know how to get rid of it.

Typical statement: "My neighbor has a Rose of Sharon near the property line and it's trying to take over my yard with lots of shoots that can't seem to be killed. I clip them off and they always come back stronger. None of my weed killers are effective..."

If someone can contribute information about control and removal (as opposed to growth and encouragement) this article could help a lot of people.

When there's just been a rainstorm, the soil's loose, or both, pulling them up takes hardly any effort at all and doesn't leave much of a hole in the lawn. Above about 5' in height is where pulling them starts to take some muscle or do noticeable damage to the lawn, but below that the dirt just falls away around the root. Wiggle it back and forth enough to noticeably loosen the soil's hold on the roots before slowly pulling straight up. Don't worry about leaving pieces of root in the ground, once the central roots are gone they almost never grow new trees. --24.153.32.41 (talk) 02:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

While this advice may be good, it is limited. First, sopping wet ground is not a common occurance. Second, the strength required to pull shoots is often beyond what an average person and provide. Third, attempts to grasp the shoots often end up with the shoot broken at that point, and not removed from the ground. Fourth, while this may work for "small" shoots, those that are more than a couple of months old are just too big.

I believe the article needs is a section "Removal of unwanted plants is problematic" with really a good solution(s). But to get things started, I may edit 24.153.32.41's comments into the article.

And may I suggest to Eric, that this sort of discussion is the reason the talk pages exist, and politely ask that Eric provide some reasoning for his total deletion of the topic. HiTechHiTouch (talk) 15:48, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Again I suggest to Eric, that this sort of discussion is the reason the talk pages exist, and politely ask that Eric provide some reasoning for his total deletion of the topic. DISCUSS YOUR REASONING HERE!!! HiTechHiTouch (talk) 15:48, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

THe article opened the door by saying the plant is invasive. Followup on dealing with the problem is appropriate. For example, an article about insect that are possible pests gives information about how to control them, for example what insecticides are effective. HiTechHiTouch (talk) 16:18, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

HiTechHiTouch: My reasoning was provided in my edit summaries. Forgive me if I neglected to put them in all caps followed by multiple exclamation marks.
@Peter coxhead, Phoenix7777, Me, Myself, and I are Here, Plantdrew, Wiki name, Darorcilmir, and Tom.Reding: Hello all- I deleted this section when I noticed that it seemed to be leaning more towards a gardening forum than a discussion aimed at improving an article on a plant species (see Talk_page_guidelines#How_to_use_article_talk_pages). As HiTechHiTouch has reverted my deletion a couple times, I thought I would bring the issue to the attention of some recent editors of the article. Thanks in advance for your input. Eric talk 16:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
There's no citation for the comment about the invasive nature of the species, so the whole comment could justifiably be removed. The other issue is the question of where it is invasive. I've never seen any evidence, physical or written, that it's invasive in the UK, for example.
More generally, I agree that the article has too much of a sense of gardening advice. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:18, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Well, there are a number of issues here. It's perfectly reasonable for HiTechHiTouch to ask on this talk page that information on controlling the plant be added to the article. And there's nothing wrong with 24.153.32.41's attempt to provide that information on the talk page (although 24.153.32.41's information is not written encyclopedically). These talk page comments can be left in place. However, Wikipedia (including talk pages) isn't a gardening forum, so it really shouldn't be expanded further (and if we were to put something in the article about control it would be along the lines of "the plant can be managed by mechanical removal or application of herbicides").
Invasiveness does need a citation and location(s). I had H. syriacus growing in the backyard of an apartment I lived in for many years, and it never spread. USDA plants mentions it as invasive in Tennessee, but from the Flora of North America description I'm not sure I'd even call it naturalized in North America, just persisting from cultivation.
There is certainly too much gardening advice that's not appropriate to an encyclopedia, which should be removed from the article, not "balanced" by adding similarly unencyclopedic material on control methods. Much of the gardening advice is a COPYVIO taken from [1], which discusses multiple species of Hibiscus and isn't necessarily relevant to this species (H. syriacus doesn't have yellow flowers that might attract whiteflies). Plantdrew (talk) 20:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


Eric: My chief objection to your conduct is the total deletion of the material without any statement as to why. This is a place for discussion, not censorship. And the topic is not intended to be "gardening advice" as in how to pull shoots, but what controls are available.
An encyclopedic article generally gives specifics. If you want to say a plant can be controlled with herbicides, then you need to at least give the classes of herbicides that apply, if not specific ones. What you're trying to do is minimize the facts you present to the reader, and I don't agree with that approach.
I don't think that 24.153.32.41's directions on pulling shoots belongs in the article. But I do believe specific control methods (e.g. repeated applications of xxxx herbicide will kill) should be included. Unfortunately, I've not found anything more effective than close cutting and covering with sun-proof tarp for 6 months. Again, I don't believe that belongs in the article either.
So I ask if ANYONE reading this talk section knows of a specific remedy, I ask them to update the article. I use as an example, Whiteflys:
Whiteflys can be controlled with insecticidal soaps, neem oil, or petroleum-based oils directly sprayed on them. Systemic insecticides like imidacloprid can control whitefly nymphs but whiteflies quickly build up resistance to them.[2]


I might even argue that some people love H. syriacus so much that 1) they can't believe it is considered a pest by many, and 2) they only want information presented about how to make it grow -- therefore they are suppressing information about how to make it **not** grow. HiTechHiTouch (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
Once again: I explained my "conduct" in my edit summaries. Further explanation followed in the above comments. Note: the plural of whitefly is whiteflies. Eric talk 03:48, 28 November 2018 (UTC)